Guns of the Modoc War, 1872-73

[Dick Hosmer]

Asking for a friend, who has come across a very interesting specimen, from an old family in the area!

Anyone have any input as to the possible use of Spencer carbines, by either side? I always thought the army had 1868 Springfields. Wikipedia, and Roy Marcot's Spencer book, do not shed any light on the matter.

Any/all input, or source references, welcome. Thanks.

[Tom Trevor]

Dick. Have your friend google the NPS page for the Lave Beds Monument. Infantry had 68 Springfields and mounted units arrived there with Spencer and Sharps carbines. Vancouver Arsenal sent 40.000 rifle rounds CF and 5000 Spence plus revolver rounds to the site during the battle. There is also a note that a large number of Spencer round failed to fire causing some panic among the troops.
If he is interested in the battle itself he should find PACIFIC NORTHWEST INDIAN WARS by Ray H Glassley , Binfords and Mort publishers Portland Oregon 1972 isbn 0-8323-0014-4 Hope this helps.

[Tony Beck]

There are also photos of various Modocs armed with Spencer carbines. Do a search on Captain Jack Modoc War or Lava Bed War and they will turn up.

I read someplace that the Jacob Goldmark Spencer ammo was all condemned after this due to its unreliability.

[khannon]

The title got my interest since I used to work at the Lava Beds and my family farm is in Tulelake. I am a Modoc War nerd!

Here is the NPS' take on the army's weaponry (this is what Tom referenced in his post above):

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_ ... cwaraf.htm

"Most of the cavalry troops, and probably Battery B, 4th Artillery (which was mounted), carried 50-cal. Sharp's carbines, which fired center-primed ammunition. Troop F was the exception; it carried Spencer carbines, which used rim-primed ammunition. Hardin (not in Troop F) wrote that the Spencers were unsatisfactory: "Several men of that troop told me that the failure of so many cartridges almost caused panic." He said that the Sharp's carbines rarely misfired."

[khannon]

This is a photo that Edward Muybridge took of a "Modoc Warrior" with a Spencer. It is now believed this was actually a Warm Springs scout in the Army's employ who "filled in" as a Modoc for purposes of the photo.

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[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks, Ken - that last link looks like exactly what my friend was looking for. He lives in Grenada, and has hunted all all over Northern CA. He comes up with the darndest stuff. I get the feeling (he JUST found it) that this MAY be an old Indian capture that was squirreled away for fear of retribution. We shall see.

[throck3]

To see several other period images from the Modoc War, google "Warm Springs Scouts", and then go to images. You will find a couple of sites thar show period photographic images of both soldiers and Warm Springs Indian scouts at the scene. You will see them armed with both Sharps carbines and Spencer carbines. One scene even shows a cavalryman equipped with a very rare (by today's collectors' standards!) Model 1870 Dyer pattern cartridge pouch on the issue Dyer sling.

As an aside, don't be confused with the name of the Warm Springs tribe. There were two Warm Springs tribes that figure largely in our history. One was the local tribe that appeared in the Modoc War in northern California and Oregon. The other was a sub-tribe of the Apaches, based in New Mexico and Arizona, also known with the translation as the Ojos Calientes. People have confused them for a hundred years and you will find a few period photographs that are mislabled "Warm Springs scouts", that show photos of Ojos Calientes Apaches and wrongly placing them at the scene of the fight with the Captain Jack and the Modocs.

[BillF]

Seeing this post I got interested in following up on and perusing information on a gun I acquired at auction not too long ago. I bought it more for the history of the piece than the collector value. I received it and did a little research and did not get far before other things needed my attention. Seems to happen a lot these days in retirement. I tried to get the consignors info from the auction company and did not get far. I did not expect to but gave it a try. Maybe someone here can help with getting the history.

Here is the text from the auction description slightly modified to remove a lot of the speculation ( the b...s...)

M68? MODOC WAR SPRINGFIELD 1870 TRAPDOOR SINGLE SHOT RIFLE.
M1870 .50-70 Springfield Trapdoor rifle that shows heavy Indian use. Oral history from consignor's grandmother was that rifle was picked up from the battlefields of the Lava Beds in Northern California during the 1872-1873 Modoc War. Rifle shows heavy dark patina overall consistent with field use in harsh climates. There is pommel or saddle wear to the forend underside and a missing cleaning rod typical of captured rifles. There are 7 brass tack holes with 1 very aged and heavy patinated tack remaining. The others have fallen out from wood shrinkage but the indentations and shank holes remain. Research indicates that there are other known Modoc recovered rifle of this exact make and model. According to the National Park Service, a few notes may be found concerning the small arms used by the combatants. The standard weapon for infantrymen at the time of the Modoc War was the .50 cal. Springfield musket, M1868 or M1870. There are several references to Springfields in the records and it is assumed that the infantry companies and most of the artillery batteries were armed with this weapon. Ammunition forwarded to the Lava Beds from the Vancouver Arsenal included 40,000 rounds, center-primed, metallic cartridges, caliber .50. The report also discusses the Modocs collecting weapons in the field after the 1st battle of the Stronghold—carbines and rifles of various makes. They probably collected even more after their attack on the Thomas patrol, April 26. It may be assumed they were as well armed as the troops, many of their weapons being army-issue. The Yreka Union reported in March 1873 that the Modocs had 13 breech-loading rifles, four of them "needle" or Springfield rifles (referring to the M1870). They were also said to have a number of muzzle-loading weapons. Overall, there is a very strong case that can be made that this is indeed a Modoc War battlefield pickup that saw Indian use. CONDITION: Heavy overall frontier patina with surface brown metal and dark bore. Strong 2 click hammer lockup with good trigger mechanics. Extractor present but sticky with age.

Yes, it is well used, abused and beat up. Bore is gone of course. Wood is very dry and as pictures show well busted up. 1870 breech block. No cartouches or stamps in the wood. Serial number barley visible on barrel. But it is a piece of history.

[khannon]

For what it's worth, I know of one other "lava beds found" M1868 -- It is in the hands of the Merrill Historical Society. It was found by a rancher in the area (one who helped handle the Army's mules during the war) the winter following the conflict. After the war, all the way up until the Lava Beds was designated a National Monument in 1925, ranchers grazed their cattle all through the area and it was not uncommon for various items to be found.

The rifle the Merrill Historical Society has is also missing its cleaning rod. The serial number of that found one is 25414. Next time I am up there, I will take pictures of it.

It is a shame you can't get any information on the consignor. It could go along way to shedding light on its history. I am willing to bet it can be traced to a family that lived in the area.

*Edit* now that I think about it, I remember another one I saw for sale years ago on Ken McPheeter's website. It was a M1868 with serial number 8969. It had tacks in the butt of the stock. McPheeter recounted oral history that it had seen use by the Modocs.

*Edit x2*: I found a photo of the M1868 at the Modoc Historical Society. Here it is:

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